Talk:Allowable Variations
The original plan was that any given MC could be adapted in any way the player sees fit; so long as those adaptations could be made to blend with the existing approved world, they could be approved. Once approved, that would be the version of that character within game canon.
Any player wishing to re-app a previously played MC and change their version or adaptation would have to account for that change within their app, explaining how everyone could have experienced the version known in prior RP, while allowing for their desired changes. Clones, magical duplicates, evil twins, other-dimensional dopplegangers, etc. Staff would work with the player however they can. Once the character is approved, their changes become the newly updated in-game canon.
The one concern raised previously had been about variant characters with big, very public differences that change in-game history (e.g. Kara Zor-El/Superwoman being the first modern demonstrated Kryptonian hero). The best answer developed previously had been first come, first served. But there were those who were concerned some of those changes would potentially drive off future interested players.
--BlondieWiki (talk) 19:52, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
I do feel we will need to artificially set ages and basics on some characters. We don't need to see Batman as just starting out; he should be set to be at his prime and already established, for example. That shouldn't change no matter who is playing them or who played them previously.
I'm okay with the comic versions having priority, but that people can app MCU or other alternate versions within reason if they ask, such as having the movie version of Valkyrie over the traditional comic version.
But we do need to set a hard break on where our theme differs. Asgardians are gods, not space aliens, etc.
There are some character types that should also be limited:
- no more than two Green Lanterns, no matter who they are, should exist, for example, whether that's Kyle Raynor, Hal Jordan, John Steward, Jessica Cruz, etc. If someone drops an existing GL, someone can then app a different character.
- Likewise, we might want to consider that for Kryptonians or other similar characters types so we don't have too many at once.
--Metahistory (talk) 20:01, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
I'm more inclined to more hard limits than handwavey ones. I really don't like the idea of alternate world/doppleganger/whatever stuff. It's... ripe for abuse, it's ripe for confusion, and for every player you make happy because they can play their snowflake variant you'll drive ten others away because they can't deal with the inconsistency.
No, there shouldn't be six variants of Starfire in the game. But we should pick one and stick with it. Major characters should be somewhat set in age and a rough arc; the supporting characters should be able to fit in with them. I feel this does mean saying "no" to specific concepts as well-- for example, if you have set Bruce Wayne as in his 20s (not that I'm suggesting this) then a 15 year old Damian Wayne should be entirely out of the question to app because it's not physically possibly for 25 year old Bruce to have a 15 year old son. Period. I don't want to see staff approving crazy alternate timeline, world-skipping, weird muckery to make it happen. Speaking as someone who has played younger character variants or characters who don't have the arc in their BG to support kids/clones/spouses/whatever being forced on them: this is, to me, a core breaking of consent on the part of the player that's there first. (And don't expect an honest answer when someone is put on the spot of "is this okay" because people will try and go the nice-nice don't make waves route and feel guilty about "ruining other peoples RP".
--OwlCity (talk) 7/4/2020 10:50PM
I'd also argue that characters like the Flash should be restricted to no more than two (possibly 1) at a time, and that there should be a requirement that characters like the Green Lanterns or Flash or Kryptonians should be separated into different groups so they each can shine and we don't have a preponderance in one group. Personally I'd say the big names should be in their late thirties at least. I'm tempted to say the Teen Titans should actually be teens but they've been around long enough that it's probably unreasonable, so I'd want to say the original Titans must be in their twenties by now.
Now, the kid thing, that's a bit trickier. I'd normally say that they'd have to get permission to app a character related directly to another character, like their child, but would we then have to do it the other way too? If we have a Damien, does someone wanting to play Batman have to get their permission? That seems ass backwards, honestly. So I guess it would be only for kids? And we should damn well limit how old a kid can be to be apped. Or boost all kids to at least mid to late teens. Molly Hayes for example from Runaways I could see being bumped to a teenager for example. I'd say no one below 15 or 16 is allowable.
But this also brings up the problem of what if, say, we get someone who wants to play Starfire, apps hers, people RP with her, then they drop and someone wants to app the 52 version of Starfire (because they have terrible taste). Do we say they can't do that because we've already established the version of Starfire that can be used?--Metahistory (talk) 22:33, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
That's exactly what I'm saying, unless you can give me a concrete reason otherwise, yes. --OwlCity (talk) 22:34, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Do we need a list of 'locked' characters then? I'd recommend it, just so people know they can't modify the basic idea once it's established. --Metahistory (talk) 23:18, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Per discussion on the mush: AU/future children of other characters should be completely banned (no Helena Wayne, AU Steve Rogers daughter, Ruby Summers, Rachel Summers, etc). In the event someone wants to app a child of another character (i.e. Damien Wayne), they must have the consent of both their parents first if they are already apped and played (i.e. Batman AND Talia if they both exist). In the event the parent character has not been apped, they may proceed. If the child character is already apped and a parent character is later apped, they have lost the ability to no-consent to the child character's existence and must work out with them how their timelines mesh. This does not, however, mean that the parent characters are locked into an IC relationship that is ongoing; if Batman says Damien is fine, and a later Talia apper is not interested, she is stuck with Damien having been her kid, but any such relationship between Damien and Talia can be expected to be in the past. In addition, if a parent character is apped at an age where they could not have a child of a playable age (which is 15? 18?) then that child character is disallowed. There may be exceptions to this rule: for example, the Fantastic Four should be set as a family unit, with Reed and Sue married and having kids and any player apping them should expect that is the reality. There may be other character pairings that are likewise set to be already in a relationship like that or to automatically have kids that exist (Stargirl is another example of this, being the daughter of her stepfather who is also a hero).--Metahistory (talk) 03:46, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
Another requirement is we may need to set the version of a character that we find allowable and a version that is not. For example, Maxima. The canon version that has existed in comics is horribly overpowered; I would not ever want to see her played. However, the nu52 version of Maxima is much more balanced and better characterized, and I'd be okay with allowing her.--Metahistory (talk) 03:48, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
I agree with pretty much everything that's been said here.
No 'future' children. Direct kids from lineage need to be able to fit into a parent's IC age/timeline reasonably and have that player's (or those players) permission/okay to do so. There is nothing worse as a MC than getting saddled with a terrible player for a character (like Damian) who ruins shit for you.
2 Green Lanterns, and 2 Flash's - one for JL potentially, and one for Titans potentially.
Also, there should only be one 'premium' Sorcerer in game - either Strange or Fate IMHO. Having them both taints the importance or capabilities of the other.
I agree on no 'alternate dimension' variations once one has been established and created. However, we should also stress that unique characters from alternate dimensions (America Chavez, for example) are okay and acceptable. And if the character hasn't been created, an alternate dimensional variation may be accepted (Gwen Stacy as Spider Woman, for example). DeadWeather (talk) 12:11, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Honestly, Fate is so powerful I would make him a TPC character. He's more than just a magic user, he's a Lord of Order. Dr. Strange should work for the Sorceror Supreme. And yes, we will need to make a list of acceptable AU characters like America and Gwen, just to be clear. --Metahistory (talk) 21:05, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
I will say, I absolutely, positively refuse to compel or fiat a marriage on anyone, even the Fantastic Four. I will not allow for either Reed or Sue to say they don't know, have never met, and have no history with the other. But they should NOT be forced to app into a marriage with someone they do not know OOCly or someone with whom they are not comfortable. If they are apped and established as married, and one drops, and someone new comes in, they discuss; if the still-remaining spouse is not up for it, then they have to - TOGETHER - come up with the storyline they are going with as to how the new apper is going forward without the marriage in place. Clone shennanigans. Mindwipe. Whatever.
I want a continuing IC continuity. That does not mean that I am allowing consent to be taken away from anyone. EVER.
--BlondieWiki (talk) 19:52, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
I would just ban the F4 then rather than deal with the headaches of people breaking canon with them then. Plenty of other characters they can app. Frankly, it's over thirty or forty years of established comic canon that they're married; to me Reed and Sue married is essential to the characters and any applicant should be aware of the canon when apping. Allowing them to app nonmarried just opens up the characters to WTF moments of them wandering off into OC land. --Metahistory (talk) 21:10, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
I think that response cuts right to the heart of exactly what I was trying to get us to discuss, here. And I don't think we've managed it. So let me try to restate this.
- How far are we prepared to allow an FC to stray from established canon?
- What kinds of variant canons are we prepared to accept?
I think the idea of banning the Fantastic 4 from a blended-world superhero game that includes Marvel because we otherwise feel driven to compel any players who app them to app Reed and Sue as married is truly and deeply problematic.
--BlondieWiki (talk) 01:06, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Respectfully, I don't believe we can answer that now. That's why we have two charstaffers looking at every app and referring it to Themestaff if there's a question. There are far too many variants in canon for these characters for us to lock down which can be used, other than very generally.
I do believe we need canon age brackets that certain characters are in for roughly what age they are. I do not want to see people apping Year One Batman, for example, because it totally screws up everyone else's canon for Batman to be 22 and Superman being in his late thirties. Likewise if a New Mutant character is older than a Year One X-men. I think setting that age bracket restricts the canon that people can choose from while still giving them some leeway.
Were I to generally put a limit on it, I would say it must be a canon from within the last twenty years; that way people are generally going to fit together in the same theme.--Metahistory (talk) 01:48, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
